Comments on: On the uncertain philosophical context of my recent hammerin’ theme http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme Pontification without all the gritty gravitas Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:11:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Bill http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-109 Bill Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:58:35 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-109 <i> And if Weller’s book was such a great gift in the 80’s, how come I never got one?</i> Wellll... it wasn't clear how good it was <i>in the context of the 80s themselves</i>. And if Weller’s book was such a great gift in the 80’s, how come I never got one?

Wellll… it wasn’t clear how good it was in the context of the 80s themselves.

]]> By: dsquared http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-106 dsquared Sun, 02 Oct 2005 22:16:46 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-106 the simple machines are the machines that you would need in a simple Newtonian world of rigid bodies with no friction. A hammer is a complicated machine. the simple machines are the machines that you would need in a simple Newtonian world of rigid bodies with no friction. A hammer is a complicated machine.

]]> By: Steve http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-99 Steve Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:35:45 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-99 But a hammer isn't a machine if you use it right. The simple machine part of the poorly written elementary science textbooks is always just after the definition of "work" (mass*distance). Most textbooks miss the definition of a machine, and then they go off in whatever non-tangential direction the educators "reviewing" the book wish to take it. A simple machine should be fefined as a device which translates the direction of the applied force to do work. Thus a screw transfers circular motion to linear, a wedge (or an inclined plane) transfers x-axis motion of the wedge to y-axis motion of the target. My favorite textbook (3rd grade) proudly states that a wedge is for pushing things apart and a screw for holding two things together. MY son's teacher could not reconcile this with the nails holding together my house and the screw jack lifting her car off the ground. (I question her science, but I helped change her flat tire) The hammer transfers x-axis energy in an x-axis direction. Good tool, not a machine. And if Weller's book was such a great gift in the 80's, how come I never got one? But a hammer isn’t a machine if you use it right. The simple machine part of the poorly written elementary science textbooks is always just after the definition of “work” (mass*distance). Most textbooks miss the definition of a machine, and then they go off in whatever non-tangential direction the educators “reviewing” the book wish to take it. A simple machine should be fefined as a device which translates the direction of the applied force to do work. Thus a screw transfers circular motion to linear, a wedge (or an inclined plane) transfers x-axis motion of the wedge to y-axis motion of the target. My favorite textbook (3rd grade) proudly states that a wedge is for pushing things apart and a screw for holding two things together. MY son’s teacher could not reconcile this with the nails holding together my house and the screw jack lifting her car off the ground. (I question her science, but I helped change her flat tire)

The hammer transfers x-axis energy in an x-axis direction. Good tool, not a machine.

And if Weller’s book was such a great gift in the 80’s, how come I never got one?

]]> By: Bill http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-95 Bill Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:57:41 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-95 So a hammer is not a machine. Except for the claw part. So some hammers are machines. The rest are... things to hit machines with? So a hammer is not a machine. Except for the claw part. So some hammers are machines. The rest are… things to hit machines with?

]]> By: Son2 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-94 Son2 Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:55:02 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-94 PhilipJ is totally right. During my K-12 "education" in NC public schools, I bet as much classtime was spent teaching me the six simple machines as teaching me evolution, thermodynamics, or <a href="http://mathworld.wolfram.com/IntegrationbyParts.html" rel="nofollow">integration by parts</a>. I grant the obvious objection that elementary school (where we did units on "simple machines" several years running) is a glorified daycare in NC and can't be compared to high school (where we did units on those topics in my biology, chemistry, and calculus classes, respectively). Granted. But maybe that's the comment? Is it necessary to treat our K-7th graders like infants? Also, the word "machine" is *<a href="http://www.bartleby.com/61/74/M0007400.html" rel="nofollow">defined</a>* (in part) by those "simple machines." PhilipJ is totally right. During my K-12 “education” in NC public schools, I bet as much classtime was spent teaching me the six simple machines as teaching me evolution, thermodynamics, or integration by parts.

I grant the obvious objection that elementary school (where we did units on “simple machines” several years running) is a glorified daycare in NC and can’t be compared to high school (where we did units on those topics in my biology, chemistry, and calculus classes, respectively). Granted. But maybe that’s the comment? Is it necessary to treat our K-7th graders like infants?

Also, the word “machine” is *defined* (in part) by those “simple machines.”

]]> By: PhilipJ http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-92 PhilipJ Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:22:39 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-92 My significant other is an elementary school teacher, and the "simple machines" theme is alive and well. In Newfoundland it is taught at least twice (kindergarten, grade 5), and here in B.C., it is taught at least once (kindergarten). My significant other is an elementary school teacher, and the “simple machines” theme is alive and well. In Newfoundland it is taught at least twice (kindergarten, grade 5), and here in B.C., it is taught at least once (kindergarten).

]]> By: Bill http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-88 Bill Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:04:05 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-88 Nothing extraordinarily pedantic noted. Come; we're all pedants here.... I'm thinking I need to look into the History of Education literature, if I ever get serious about the question. [Anyway, yes, one of my copies of Weller's book is on sale. When I saw them back in the 1980s, I bought all I could for gifts, and nowadays we need to downsize the household inventory. Be warned: it's out of print....] Nothing extraordinarily pedantic noted. Come; we’re all pedants here….

I’m thinking I need to look into the History of Education literature, if I ever get serious about the question.

[Anyway, yes, one of my copies of Weller's book is on sale. When I saw them back in the 1980s, I bought all I could for gifts, and nowadays we need to downsize the household inventory. Be warned: it's out of print....]

]]> By: Andre http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-87 Andre Mon, 26 Sep 2005 03:00:55 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-87 Sorry if the last comment sounded a bit pedantic, that wasn't really my intention. I had a brief look for some history of simple machine teaching and didn't really find much. But I did find out that a hammer is included in the six as a lever of the third kind... Lot's of vocabulary for little understanding. By the way, any chance your copy of <em>Science Made Stupid</em> will make it to your list of books for sale? Sorry if the last comment sounded a bit pedantic, that wasn’t really my intention. I had a brief look for some history of simple machine teaching and didn’t really find much. But I did find out that a hammer is included in the six as a lever of the third kind… Lot’s of vocabulary for little understanding.

By the way, any chance your copy of Science Made Stupid will make it to your list of books for sale?

]]> By: Bill http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-86 Bill Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:27:40 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-86 I'm thinking the "six simple machines" is some sort of cultural residuum from the educational model of the 1960s. We don't hear it much, anymore, for some reason. Maybe because it was broken; maybe because it's <i>old</i>.... Indeed, the thing that reminded me of the grouping was the fact that I was just thumbing through <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0395366461/ref=nosim/billtoziersho-20">Tom Weller's amazing book <i>Science Made Stupid</i></a> again the other day, and came across his table, which includes the "Disinclined Plane" and the "Screwup". Anyway, the book mocked "How and Why"-style science-for-kids books of the 1960s, and that's where I doubtless learned the six myself. I’m thinking the “six simple machines” is some sort of cultural residuum from the educational model of the 1960s. We don’t hear it much, anymore, for some reason. Maybe because it was broken; maybe because it’s old….

Indeed, the thing that reminded me of the grouping was the fact that I was just thumbing through Tom Weller’s amazing book Science Made Stupid again the other day, and came across his table, which includes the “Disinclined Plane” and the “Screwup”. Anyway, the book mocked “How and Why”-style science-for-kids books of the 1960s, and that’s where I doubtless learned the six myself.

]]> By: Andre http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-85 Andre Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:11:53 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-85 The hammer is actually included in <a href="http://www.sirinet.net/~jgjohnso/sixsimple.html" rel="nofollow">this list</a> of six simple machines that "scientists have identified" but not for bashing. Instead, it's included as a lever. All these simple machines reduce the force required to do some work by spreading it over a longer distance (or angle in the case of the screw).* That's also true of a hammer in bashing mode, but the spreading out is also separated from the work you want to do (i.e. driving a nail) in time. Maybe they thought that was just too hard to explain? *Except the simple pulley which simply changes the direction you have to pull. Maybe they meant to include a compound pulley? The hammer is actually included in this list of six simple machines that “scientists have identified” but not for bashing. Instead, it’s included as a lever. All these simple machines reduce the force required to do some work by spreading it over a longer distance (or angle in the case of the screw).* That’s also true of a hammer in bashing mode, but the spreading out is also separated from the work you want to do (i.e. driving a nail) in time. Maybe they thought that was just too hard to explain?

*Except the simple pulley which simply changes the direction you have to pull. Maybe they meant to include a compound pulley?

]]> By: dave http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/09/25/on-the-uncertain-philosophical-context-of-my-recent-hammerin-theme#comment-83 dave Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:46:47 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/?p=89#comment-83 it definitely seems like a hammer is simpler than a screw. perhaps the difference is that the six simple machines can be used as components in larger machines? do you know where this category of six simple machines originated? it definitely seems like a hammer is simpler than a screw. perhaps the difference is that the six simple machines can be used as components in larger machines?

do you know where this category of six simple machines originated?

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