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	<title>Comments on: What it about not being the</title>
	<atom:link href="http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the</link>
	<description>Pontification without all the gritty gravitas</description>
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		<title>By: Sunday, Day of Links : Green Gabbro</title>
		<link>http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the/comment-page-1#comment-1116</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunday, Day of Links : Green Gabbro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jul 2006 07:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the#comment-1116</guid>
		<description>[...] William Tozier on communicating across disciplines:  Obvious rules of thumb and tools I always use, unthinkingly, in every case—like random sampling the search set of an optimization problem, or saving a record of every solution tested so I can watch progress of an ongoing search…. well, I may as well have invoked Marx or done a little interpretive dance. And at the same time, the consumers of my products are watching for certain significant passwords, and they’re just not coming. Because I’m not seeing the cues, the raised eyebrows, the head tilted, the muttered “…and—?” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] William Tozier on communicating across disciplines:  Obvious rules of thumb and tools I always use, unthinkingly, in every case—like random sampling the search set of an optimization problem, or saving a record of every solution tested so I can watch progress of an ongoing search…. well, I may as well have invoked Marx or done a little interpretive dance. And at the same time, the consumers of my products are watching for certain significant passwords, and they’re just not coming. Because I’m not seeing the cues, the raised eyebrows, the head tilted, the muttered “…and—?” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Branko Collin</title>
		<link>http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the/comment-page-1#comment-734</link>
		<dc:creator>Branko Collin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 May 2006 01:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the#comment-734</guid>
		<description>If you suck at deadlines, does that mean your customers hate you? Or perhaps they love you, because you estimated that something would take X hours, and sold it for that, while anyone could see that it would take 5X hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you suck at deadlines, does that mean your customers hate you? Or perhaps they love you, because you estimated that something would take X hours, and sold it for that, while anyone could see that it would take 5X hours.</p>
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		<title>By: Tozier</title>
		<link>http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the/comment-page-1#comment-724</link>
		<dc:creator>Tozier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the#comment-724</guid>
		<description>I am &lt;i&gt;very&lt;/i&gt; good at maintaining a straight face. So much practice, you see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am <i>very</i> good at maintaining a straight face. So much practice, you see.</p>
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		<title>By: aramisgm</title>
		<link>http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the/comment-page-1#comment-723</link>
		<dc:creator>aramisgm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the#comment-723</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;even outside this protected, nurturing creche that is graduate school.&lt;/i&gt;

I have a slightly difficult time picturing you typing this with a straight face. But then, perhaps in some far off land this is a good description of grad school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>even outside this protected, nurturing creche that is graduate school.</i></p>
<p>I have a slightly difficult time picturing you typing this with a straight face. But then, perhaps in some far off land this is a good description of grad school.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Lofstrom</title>
		<link>http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the/comment-page-1#comment-722</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Lofstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the#comment-722</guid>
		<description>1) Are you sufficiently cynical? Are you willing to conceal your true thoughts re the uselessness of certain assumptions and procedures, speak only what will fall sweetly on the ears of the faculty, and confine yourself to the safe and non-controversial until you have the certificate in hand and can tell them what you REALLY think? 

2) If you&#039;re sufficiently cynical, you must turn the full capacity of your prodigious mind (you&#039;re a damn sight smarter than I am, Tozier, and I intimidate most people) to figuring out how to massage the faculty. Read books on how to manipulate people if necessary. Do not worry about saying true things, worry about saying convincing things. 

3) Just thought of this -- if there is even ONE professor there who has glimmers of understanding you, try to take his/her courses if at all possible. 

I washed out of graduate school, due in part to Aspie klutziness at dealing with people, and in large part because I was torn between saying what was politically necessary and wanting to figure out what was TRUE. I didn&#039;t have the courage to go down in flames as a martyr to the truth and I sucked at sycophancy. I fell between two stools. 

If you can&#039;t stomach the &quot;say what is safe&quot; alternative, and you&#039;re in school for the knowledge rather than the certificate, then figure out how to stay long enough to learn what you need to learn, do it, cock a snook at the idiots, and leave. 

They&#039;re obviously set up for dealing with the unformed rather than the intelligent practitioner of another discipline. They don&#039;t have the time, the energy, or the flexibility to grapple with what YOU have to offer them. Too bad for them. 

No, wait -- I can sympathize with them too. Learning new things is hard. I&#039;ve got a house full of books about things I mean to learn someday, and I keep doing the easy things. It&#039;s even harder when you think of yourself as someone who teaches rather than learns. 

Best teachers are learners. My Zen master says that &quot;good students make a good teacher&quot;. 

Does any of this help? 

-- 
Zora on DP (shamefully absent the last few months)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Are you sufficiently cynical? Are you willing to conceal your true thoughts re the uselessness of certain assumptions and procedures, speak only what will fall sweetly on the ears of the faculty, and confine yourself to the safe and non-controversial until you have the certificate in hand and can tell them what you REALLY think? </p>
<p>2) If you&#8217;re sufficiently cynical, you must turn the full capacity of your prodigious mind (you&#8217;re a damn sight smarter than I am, Tozier, and I intimidate most people) to figuring out how to massage the faculty. Read books on how to manipulate people if necessary. Do not worry about saying true things, worry about saying convincing things. </p>
<p>3) Just thought of this &#8212; if there is even ONE professor there who has glimmers of understanding you, try to take his/her courses if at all possible. </p>
<p>I washed out of graduate school, due in part to Aspie klutziness at dealing with people, and in large part because I was torn between saying what was politically necessary and wanting to figure out what was TRUE. I didn&#8217;t have the courage to go down in flames as a martyr to the truth and I sucked at sycophancy. I fell between two stools. </p>
<p>If you can&#8217;t stomach the &#8220;say what is safe&#8221; alternative, and you&#8217;re in school for the knowledge rather than the certificate, then figure out how to stay long enough to learn what you need to learn, do it, cock a snook at the idiots, and leave. </p>
<p>They&#8217;re obviously set up for dealing with the unformed rather than the intelligent practitioner of another discipline. They don&#8217;t have the time, the energy, or the flexibility to grapple with what YOU have to offer them. Too bad for them. </p>
<p>No, wait &#8212; I can sympathize with them too. Learning new things is hard. I&#8217;ve got a house full of books about things I mean to learn someday, and I keep doing the easy things. It&#8217;s even harder when you think of yourself as someone who teaches rather than learns. </p>
<p>Best teachers are learners. My Zen master says that &#8220;good students make a good teacher&#8221;. </p>
<p>Does any of this help? </p>
<p>&#8211;<br />
Zora on DP (shamefully absent the last few months)</p>
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		<title>By: Tozier</title>
		<link>http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the/comment-page-1#comment-720</link>
		<dc:creator>Tozier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the#comment-720</guid>
		<description>Why hasn&#039;t anybody &lt;i&gt;told me&lt;/i&gt; I&#039;m not supposed to pee on the carpet? See, another cultural problem with interdisciplinarity, right there. Can&#039;t win.

Anyway, yes, I see. But you know, a number of faculty (not the younger ones, Cf. &lt;a href=&quot;http://suburbdad.blogspot.com/2006/04/generation-x-faculty-and-deans.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dean Dad&#039;s recent discussion of Gen X faculty&lt;/a&gt;) do indeed take the position of &quot;testing&quot; as of the sea and a sailor, explicitly. They&#039;re not liked for it, but you know I can&#039;t help but think such examples don&#039;t sink in and get preserved in the cultural baggage of later faculty. Not as direct descendants, but in a sort of alternation-of-generations thing, as is seen with tattoos or Republicanism.

That said, what I know happens here is this dynamic: Faculty have no time. No Time! They&#039;re expected to put out for pedagogy all over the place, yet paid for maybe a 2% commitment, taking their real work hours and other commitments into account. No way in hell they can enter into a deep engaging analytical conversation with a class of 50 students with sufficient due diligence to give them the &lt;i&gt;right&lt;/i&gt; grades. Whatever those right grades are---we may not believe in them, but somebody has to turn them in within 48 hours of the scheduled final exam, or they&#039;re dead meat.

Whatever dead meat is, in such a context.

So a clear case not only of everybody complaining about the weather and not doing anything about it, but with &quot;testing&quot; and &quot;grades&quot; they &lt;i&gt;make&lt;/i&gt; the weather themselves. Since we&#039;re analogizing.

I&#039;m all for &lt;a href=&quot;http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/02/09/it-all-averages-out-in-the-end&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;alternative assessment modes&lt;/a&gt;, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/11/02/welcome-to-class&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;disruptive social reconfiguration&lt;/a&gt;. All for it. Don&#039;t see much of it, in practice, though. It&#039;s &lt;i&gt;wayyy&lt;/i&gt; too much work.

Which, if you think about it, is pleasantly ironic. Given my starting inspiration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why hasn&#8217;t anybody <i>told me</i> I&#8217;m not supposed to pee on the carpet? See, another cultural problem with interdisciplinarity, right there. Can&#8217;t win.</p>
<p>Anyway, yes, I see. But you know, a number of faculty (not the younger ones, Cf. <a href="http://suburbdad.blogspot.com/2006/04/generation-x-faculty-and-deans.html" rel="nofollow">Dean Dad&#8217;s recent discussion of Gen X faculty</a>) do indeed take the position of &#8220;testing&#8221; as of the sea and a sailor, explicitly. They&#8217;re not liked for it, but you know I can&#8217;t help but think such examples don&#8217;t sink in and get preserved in the cultural baggage of later faculty. Not as direct descendants, but in a sort of alternation-of-generations thing, as is seen with tattoos or Republicanism.</p>
<p>That said, what I know happens here is this dynamic: Faculty have no time. No Time! They&#8217;re expected to put out for pedagogy all over the place, yet paid for maybe a 2% commitment, taking their real work hours and other commitments into account. No way in hell they can enter into a deep engaging analytical conversation with a class of 50 students with sufficient due diligence to give them the <i>right</i> grades. Whatever those right grades are&#8212;we may not believe in them, but somebody has to turn them in within 48 hours of the scheduled final exam, or they&#8217;re dead meat.</p>
<p>Whatever dead meat is, in such a context.</p>
<p>So a clear case not only of everybody complaining about the weather and not doing anything about it, but with &#8220;testing&#8221; and &#8220;grades&#8221; they <i>make</i> the weather themselves. Since we&#8217;re analogizing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for <a href="http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/02/09/it-all-averages-out-in-the-end" rel="nofollow">alternative assessment modes</a>, and <a href="http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2005/11/02/welcome-to-class" rel="nofollow">disruptive social reconfiguration</a>. All for it. Don&#8217;t see much of it, in practice, though. It&#8217;s <i>wayyy</i> too much work.</p>
<p>Which, if you think about it, is pleasantly ironic. Given my starting inspiration.</p>
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		<title>By: son1</title>
		<link>http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the/comment-page-1#comment-719</link>
		<dc:creator>son1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the#comment-719</guid>
		<description>I mean, there&#039;s always &lt;em&gt;implicit&lt;/em&gt; testing, sure -- the same way that (say) I might &quot;test&quot; my friends to see if they remember my birthday, or (you know) &quot;test&quot; a dog, to see if he learns not to pee on the carpet.

But I stand by my earlier implication -- you (we!) take things called &#039;classes&#039;, we get those alphabetty dealies at the end, we&#039;re in something called &quot;school,&quot; and yet I claim the paradigm of &lt;em&gt;testing&lt;/em&gt; is an ... imprecise one.  We&#039;re not &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; still in &quot;school.&quot;  

Unless you say the ocean is testing the overboard sailor.  I suppose then you could say we&#039;re being &quot;tested,&quot; right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean, there&#8217;s always <em>implicit</em> testing, sure &#8212; the same way that (say) I might &#8220;test&#8221; my friends to see if they remember my birthday, or (you know) &#8220;test&#8221; a dog, to see if he learns not to pee on the carpet.</p>
<p>But I stand by my earlier implication &#8212; you (we!) take things called &#8216;classes&#8217;, we get those alphabetty dealies at the end, we&#8217;re in something called &#8220;school,&#8221; and yet I claim the paradigm of <em>testing</em> is an &#8230; imprecise one.  We&#8217;re not <em>really</em> still in &#8220;school.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Unless you say the ocean is testing the overboard sailor.  I suppose then you could say we&#8217;re being &#8220;tested,&#8221; right?</p>
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		<title>By: Tozier</title>
		<link>http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the/comment-page-1#comment-718</link>
		<dc:creator>Tozier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the#comment-718</guid>
		<description>Those alphabetty things they tell me I get in the end? In this letter from the College I got in January, telling me something about probability, or pronation, or something along those lines. Something about the letters; I need more letters, I think it was.

&quot;Testing&quot; is happening in meetings, in homework, in reviews. It&#039;s the way, around here at least, that classwork is conducted and discussed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those alphabetty things they tell me I get in the end? In this letter from the College I got in January, telling me something about probability, or pronation, or something along those lines. Something about the letters; I need more letters, I think it was.</p>
<p>&#8220;Testing&#8221; is happening in meetings, in homework, in reviews. It&#8217;s the way, around here at least, that classwork is conducted and discussed.</p>
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		<title>By: son1</title>
		<link>http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the/comment-page-1#comment-717</link>
		<dc:creator>son1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/04/27/what-it-about-not-being-the#comment-717</guid>
		<description>Wait, remind me why &quot;testing&quot; is the right way of thinking about all this?  Because Graduate School has the word &quot;school&quot; in it, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, remind me why &#8220;testing&#8221; is the right way of thinking about all this?  Because Graduate School has the word &#8220;school&#8221; in it, right?</p>
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