Comments on: Wolfram’s “Open Conference” with over-broad Nondisclosure Agreement http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement Pontification without all the gritty gravitas Mon, 08 Mar 2010 04:16:04 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Tozier http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement/comment-page-1#comment-3976 Tozier Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:46:26 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement#comment-3976 Ah! My blog broke yesterday, adn swallowed the story. I hadn't noticed it was gone. I'll re-post the outcome story. Brief: I left, and instead have had a chance to attend two other very nice conferences here in Ann Arbor. Ah! My blog broke yesterday, adn swallowed the story. I hadn’t noticed it was gone.

I’ll re-post the outcome story.

Brief: I left, and instead have had a chance to attend two other very nice conferences here in Ann Arbor.

]]> By: jim http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement/comment-page-1#comment-3972 jim Tue, 17 Oct 2006 01:12:02 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement#comment-3972 So. What happened? Or can't you say? So. What happened? Or can’t you say?

]]> By: Tozier http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement/comment-page-1#comment-3955 Tozier Sun, 15 Oct 2006 12:11:22 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement#comment-3955 <blockquote>It makes me feel good to say that I tried Mathematica in the ’80s, found it difficult to get to do what I wanted (I remember having trouble getting it to do simple things like return x^2/2 for the integral of x, a problem I never had with paper and pencil), and so went on to use other software.</blockquote> It's an amazing piece of software. Really. I wish, for example, that oter functional programming languages or interactive scripting systems had the same infrastructure in place, in the Notebook interface. But beyond that, it's a very powerful prototyping and exploratory system. You can sit down, with a bit of Mathematica experience, and not only do your calculus homework, but also implement a cellular automaton or some other rewriting system, or explore some extraordinary graphics. I wouldn't try (as many apaprently do) to replace R with it, or use it for a real application development system, but it's an impressive exploratory tool and worth the effort to learn.

It makes me feel good to say that I tried Mathematica in the ’80s, found it difficult to get to do what I wanted (I remember having trouble getting it to do simple things like return x^2/2 for the integral of x, a problem I never had with paper and pencil), and so went on to use other software.

It’s an amazing piece of software. Really. I wish, for example, that oter functional programming languages or interactive scripting systems had the same infrastructure in place, in the Notebook interface. But beyond that, it’s a very powerful prototyping and exploratory system. You can sit down, with a bit of Mathematica experience, and not only do your calculus homework, but also implement a cellular automaton or some other rewriting system, or explore some extraordinary graphics.

I wouldn’t try (as many apaprently do) to replace R with it, or use it for a real application development system, but it’s an impressive exploratory tool and worth the effort to learn.

]]> By: Michael Stiber http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement/comment-page-1#comment-3891 Michael Stiber Fri, 13 Oct 2006 08:13:30 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement#comment-3891 Somehow, Cosma's use of the word "crank" for Wolfram seems far too kind. "Utter Batshit Insanity" comes closer. It makes me feel good to say that I tried Mathematica in the '80s, found it difficult to get to do what I wanted (I remember having trouble getting it to do simple things like return x^2/2 for the integral of x, a problem I never had with paper and pencil), and so went on to use other software. Somehow, Cosma’s use of the word “crank” for Wolfram seems far too kind. “Utter Batshit Insanity” comes closer.

It makes me feel good to say that I tried Mathematica in the ’80s, found it difficult to get to do what I wanted (I remember having trouble getting it to do simple things like return x^2/2 for the integral of x, a problem I never had with paper and pencil), and so went on to use other software.

]]> By: Tozier http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement/comment-page-1#comment-3884 Tozier Fri, 13 Oct 2006 01:23:58 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement#comment-3884 No, seriously: Wolfram (collectively, I suppose, but I wonder) established a vivid and widely-respected reputation for <a href="http://cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2002-July/005692.html" rel="nofollow">dangerous antiscientific litigiousness</a> in the mid 90s. I was working at <a href="http://santafe.edu" rel="nofollow">SFI</a> while Cook presented his proof at the cellular automata conference, but left before the storm of lawsuit threats and court orders came in from Wolfram Research's lawyers. Essentially their threats led to the Institute withdrawing a technical report, and expunging <b>references</b> to Cook's presentation <i>of his own work</i> from the Proceedings volume. Bibliographic references. In works not by Cook himself. To Cook's talk. Which was also suppressed from the publication list. Ask <a href="http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/reviews/wolfram/" rel="nofollow">Cosma for more</a>. There are therefore reasons to distrust WR on the leniency front. A suspicious mind might worry that they could use such a court order or lawsuit to suppress certain classes of speech by conference attendees and signatories of the NDA, regardless of the validity of the claim. I'm not suspicious. I just think it's stinky legal language, and deeply unprofessional. No, seriously: Wolfram (collectively, I suppose, but I wonder) established a vivid and widely-respected reputation for dangerous antiscientific litigiousness in the mid 90s. I was working at SFI while Cook presented his proof at the cellular automata conference, but left before the storm of lawsuit threats and court orders came in from Wolfram Research’s lawyers. Essentially their threats led to the Institute withdrawing a technical report, and expunging references to Cook’s presentation of his own work from the Proceedings volume. Bibliographic references. In works not by Cook himself. To Cook’s talk. Which was also suppressed from the publication list.

Ask Cosma for more.

There are therefore reasons to distrust WR on the leniency front. A suspicious mind might worry that they could use such a court order or lawsuit to suppress certain classes of speech by conference attendees and signatories of the NDA, regardless of the validity of the claim.

I’m not suspicious. I just think it’s stinky legal language, and deeply unprofessional.

]]> By: Tozier http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement/comment-page-1#comment-3880 Tozier Fri, 13 Oct 2006 00:45:57 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement#comment-3880 <i>How can they realistically expect to maintain information as trade secret if they tell it to anyone with a couple hundred dollars or so?</i> Cheap date? :) How can they realistically expect to maintain information as trade secret if they tell it to anyone with a couple hundred dollars or so?

Cheap date? :)

]]> By: Michael Stiber http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement/comment-page-1#comment-3879 Michael Stiber Fri, 13 Oct 2006 00:23:58 +0000 http://williamtozier.com/slurry/2006/10/10/wolframs-open-conference-with-over-broad-nondisclosure-agreement#comment-3879 Time to switch to MATLAB? :^) They say, "All attendees at this conference will be asked to sign a confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement." I guess it doesn't hurt to ask; they don't say that they'll boot you out (and refund your money) if you refuse. How can they realistically expect to maintain information as trade secret if they tell it to anyone with a couple hundred dollars or so? Time to switch to MATLAB? :^)

They say, “All attendees at this conference will be asked to sign a confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement.” I guess it doesn’t hurt to ask; they don’t say that they’ll boot you out (and refund your money) if you refuse. How can they realistically expect to maintain information as trade secret if they tell it to anyone with a couple hundred dollars or so?

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